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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 3:29 pm 
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dah! i just tried to post this and lost it. typed again:

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As I said before, "an hour of exercise," "counting calories" and "cutting out carbs" could mean good, healthy behaviors or terrible, excessive behaviors.


And, as I said before, and I think this is the real point of divergence of perspectives here, from my experience, education, and education of others' experience, "1-2 hours of exercise every day", "counting calories" and "cutting out carbs" can NOT mean good, healthy behaviours.

I understand what you're saying about " It's way too easy as an eating disorder sufferer to immediately jump to the most extreme interpretation". It reminds me of another interesting debate, (which i hope does not get us off-topic) the idea of restaurants publishing the 'nutritional information' of their meals on their menus. My reaction to that idea was initially "That's horrible! People shouldn't be obsessing about that!!" Another perspective was presented to me - many dishes are deceptive in terms of fat content, or don't really have high quality ingredients, and people don't know, and for some people it would be JUST a positive to be able to use that information in choosing a given meal. That is to say, unlike what it would be to an eating disordered person, that information is just information, it's not a sign saying "Don't eat this i'm BAD!" it's just saying "this may interest you."
So it was worth pointing out to me that knowing the nutritional information of a meal does not = actually obsessing, counting calories or grams of fat or whatever.

This case I think is not the same. I don't know of people who count calories who do not have a disturbing fixation on restriction and weight loss by intake manipulation that I see no value in. I do know people who know what 'calories' are and that you probably don't want to be eating way fewer than xxxx calories or much more than xxxx calories (and they should be coming from x y and z more so than l m and n, etc.) That's not counting calories because it doesn't invade your day. How do you count things without being conscious of them - every one of them?

As I said in my first post, this woman isn't thinking about anything but weight loss. That's shitty.
I don't know of how you can exercise 1-2 hours every day, again for the purposes of weight loss (rather than training, or physical therapy, or part of your job, or whatever) and have that not be an unhealthy fixation. 1-2 hours every day is extreme. Even "every day" is extreme. Again, all this person is thinking about is weight loss. You devote that much time and energy to it (while 'counting calories') and you can't help but have that be the case.
As for "cutting out carbs completely", um, no, that can't be healthy. Sorry. Show me the nutritionist or dietician who practices and advocates cutting out carbohydrates completely and... I don't even know what to say - I want to say "and I'll show you either an android or a dead person." because it won't happen, it doesn't make any sense.

So I think that's the position here, Blue Decay (I wish I knew your name so that I could call you by it :) I feel strange speaking to 'blue decay'...)
- I don't think you came here to set off a bunch of eating disordered people (though we do ask, here, that people keep in mind that people come here to feel safe and so we try to at least consider how easily our words can be appropriated by people's eating disorders to justify crazy shit) and i don't think you're totally out to lunch, either, in believing that "calorie counting" and "cutting out carbs" is acceptable because friggin everyone believes that. But, the people I really admire, and have been inspired by in the course of my recovery from my eating disorder, are people who understand for one reason or another that actually, "cals" and "carbs" have their place in discussion and science but regarding them as demerit points you try to keep to their minimum, in the pursuit of weight loss, is um... unequivocally fucked.

In case anyone would like to raise the issue that "some people are overweight, weight-loss diets are not a bad thing!", there I would redirect us all to the fact that although I don't know who this person is, and didn't read the article, I think it's been clear throughout this thread that this was some hot star on a crash diet and not an article about a reduced calorie, high-protein diet being used to treat obesity.

So ya. It's antiquated. It's not relevant to life to count calories and try to get thin and devote all this energy to it while expressly curtailing the energy available to you. That is why it makes sense to me to look at the information in Kaz(!)'s original post and say "that's fucked, society's lame."

Hope to hear more about you, Blue, and that this site is useful to you. Have a look around :)

peace

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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 4:09 pm 
healthy is sexy
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yes this was not an obesity issue. this was a short term diet (if you can call it that) to lose baby weight, as this woman is a model. to clarify, im NOT saying that makes it okay.. i do not think it makes it okay. it doesnt change it at all, its still unhealthy, and though it was a short term thing and it is claimed shes gone back to healthier habits, its hard to think those behaviors would leave completely once you start them. however, i doubt this is the first time those behaviors were done. i think this is the difference between being eating disordered and having disordered eating. the behavior vs the behavior +mental thought(anguish). i cant imagine being a model and not already being obsessed with my body, weight, etc, so i think its pretty safe to say those were the issues in her mind at the time, and always are. slippery slope, i say.

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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 4:20 pm 
orange addict
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I didn't follow this whole thread, but I do have one thing to point out. Yes, the grains are a semi recent addition to our diets. But in the same time period, we have stopped eating a lot of the things we used to eat... I'm not going to break this list down by which items correspond to the addition of grains, but here we go:

We used to eat many more goards than we do now, aka Pumpkins and Squash.

We used to eat that white stuff inside the orange, now we remove it and throw it away.

We used to eat the soft tissue just under fresh tree bark. We don't do that anymore.

We used to eat bone marrow. We don't do that anymore.

We used to eat the stomach contents of dead animals. We don't anymore.

I know that not all of those things listed above replace bread. But my point is that our environment has changed. While bread has become availible, other carbohydrate groups, which we relied on as hunter gatherer nomads, have dissapeared.

Another thing I'd have to say, is that there are places in Africa where people rely on fruity nuts for much of their diet. But these people have not simply replaced grains with "more carrots", they have a completely different nutritional base...

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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 4:25 pm 
healthy is sexy
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great points, toomuchthinking.

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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:41 pm 
orange goddess
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What I want to say is 1-2 hours of exercise a day is indeed going overboard. But whether or not she counts her additional walking around for her job as exercise we won't know. But in my experience, I used to exercise this much every single day whilst undereating and I felt awful. She must have a trainer or something to make sure she is doing it safely otherwise I would question her motives somewhat...

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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:45 pm 
healthy is sexy
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she does have a trainer, and as far as i can tell, the exercise shes counting in the 1-2 hours is spent in the gym.

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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:48 pm 
healthy is sexy
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to add to poppet, i still struggle with compulsive exercise, and i do about 2 hours a day. im pretty exhausted all the time. when i wasnt eating, i dont know HOW i kept moving. calories=energy=YAY.

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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:55 pm 
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^I do exercise about two hours a day (well, some days with breaks especially if I am sick or injured!) but only because I am an athlete. I am a dancer (yup, dancers are athletes too!) But I still remember to make sure I am eating enough calories each day. You should not exercise if you are not ingesting enough calories! And guess what? If you are indeed an athlete (which it sure as hell doesn't sound like Adriana Lima is because I hardly count bra modeling a sport) or if you are being that physically active you need carbs to keep yourself going and not just carbs from vegetables either!

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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:26 pm 
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Kaz wrote:
There is a reason I didn't post the link.

Then no one who posted in this thread, unless they had previously read the story, can accurately judge whether or not the behaviors were good or bad.

wickedrache wrote:
I don't think you came here to set off a bunch of eating disordered people

Considering I've had an eating disorder for the past four years or so, no indeed. I also wasn't defending what the woman the article was about did, or said. My point is that without the source, I don't know. Neither does anyone else, and the automatic "Bad! Encouraging disordered behaviors and thoughts!" judgments being thrown out in the first few posts of the thread were thus completely unjustified.

And yes, if you want to completely cut out grains, it's not as simple as eating carrots instead of whole wheat bread. But vegetarianism isn't just living off of lentils, either...a healthy diet of any kind is a complex thing with a lot of variables that you have to take into consideration. My point was that it can be done.


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:30 pm 
orange scribe

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I think the original point of this thread has been lost.

It has become something where people are feeling attacked (whether that be the intention or not)...


due to this I am temporarily locking it.

If muse or another post-mod wants to unlock it, that's fine... but I think for the moment... it may be for the best.



p.s. Blue Decay, why don't you post an intro in the member's section so we can get to know you better... outside of this thread?

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