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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 1:06 pm 
Blue Decay wrote:
How do you think the human race survived before the advent of agriculture? No agriculture = no grains = no bread, no pasta, no rice. It's absolutely fine and quite healthy to get all your carbs from veggies, the way we did for the millions of years that homo sapiens was around and not yet tilling the earth.


Rice has been around since at least 1400 BC. Bread has been around since the Neolithic era, about 9500 BCE. Although I am not an expert on the history of nutrition, I would say that our bodies have adapted and evolved since then. Sure, the first homo sapiens probably didn't eat carbs in the same way that we do today, but they also didn't live very long, or need the energy for the same things as we need it today. They probably would have eaten LOTS of red meat, along with fruits which according to many popular diets today are also apparently 'bad'.


Blue Decay wrote:
Edited to add: Also, there are a lot of people who "take machetes to food groups." They're called vegetarians and vegans. Are we going to claim all vegetarians and vegans have eating disorders now?


I am vegetarian and I do not see meat as a food group. I also make sure I get protein and iron from other food sources. If you cut out bread and other grains, where are you going to get your B vitamins? Just gonna sit there and eat a whole load of Brazil nuts?

Also reasons for being vegetarian or vegan are often ethical. Reasons for cutting out carbs aren't.


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 1:07 pm 
orange scribe

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calories are energy. I don't count them.

My meal plan at the moment has NOTHING to do with calories... I think that says something.

I think exchanges are FAR more important to be paying attention to.

I think calorie counting, rough estimates, etc.. are often unnecessary.

If you are getting in meal exchanges... that's what matters.


Even for weight restoration... (just more exchanges)

a healthy outlook on food deals with a good balance of exchanges - and a number of them that correlates with your level of activity, not an amount of calories. I think the latter focuses on the wrong thing....

2000 calories of junk food is NOT equal to 2000 calories of healthier food (healthier not meaning less calorically dense)

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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 1:27 pm 
orange scribe

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Blue Decay wrote:
Edited to add: Also, there are a lot of people who "take machetes to food groups." They're called vegetarians and vegans. Are we going to claim all vegetarians and vegans have eating disorders now?



I agree with Alex on this one... "meat" is not a food group... PROTEIN is though... and I personally rarely get my protein from meat... I get it from beans, cheese, nuts, nut butters (almond, peanut, etc)...

and there are loads of dairy substitutes out there for vegans... soy milk, rice milk, almond milk, etc.


I think you'd be hard pressed to find a vegan or vegetarian that does not make up their protein and/or dairy some other way... so they're not taking a machete to that food group, they're just using substitutes or things you don't normally think to use for that exchange.

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I myself am made entirely of flaws, stitched together with good intentions.

http://recoverysabotage.tumblr.com/


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 1:40 pm 
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Beautifully said, Butterfly, and Alex I laughed out loud at "eat a whole lot of Brazil nuts."

incidentally Blue Decay I hope you don't feel attacked at all, that certainly wasn't my intention and it's nice to have you here, glad you found the site and are contributing your perspective!

Personally I am a very good vegetarian, currently, but I was a very bad vegan, as in naughty - I was still very eating disordered when I was a vegan and did indeed take a machete to a few food groups. (i was also a bad vegetarian before i was vegan) The others are quite right in saying that it isn't a healthy vegan who simply eliminates food without restructuring their diet to ensure their health.

Also I think Lauri is on to something... sure you can be "aware" without being problematically obsessed, but this woman's focus is weight loss. she is counting. There is no need to count. It's also absurd to count for the reasons i mentioned before to say nothing of the fact that you really can't rely on the estimations (which is what they are) provided on foods. It's also processed differently for every individual body.
I don't think it's because I have been eating disordered that "calorie counting" alarms me. Actually it is the people who aren't eating disordered, going through their lives in subclinical obsessive and never, ever satisfied fixation, 'negotiating' left and right, comparing calories on packaging in the grocery store, literally frightened of 'empty calories', that i am concerned about.
"Counting calories", "cutting carbs", "exercising 1-2 hours a day", no, these are not diagnostic criteria, this woman is not advocating eating disorders. That doesn't make it not fucked.
The focus is wrong. that's the point, isn't it? there's more to life than this. Starvation is not a worthwhile pursuit.

:wbb:

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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 2:11 pm 
orange is hot

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If meat isn't a food group, neither is bread. Why is getting your protein from lentils instead of hamburger ok, but getting your carbohydrates from carrots instead of spaghetti a disordered behavior? (And yes, you can get carbs from veggies. What do you think cellulose is made of?)

As for our increased life expectancy, that has more to do with modern sanitation, medicine, housing and not getting eaten by saber-toothed cats and dire wolves. :P Yes, we eat more bread now, but correlation is not necessarily causation. And while rice and bread have been around for a while, it's only been a few thousand years, which is a paltry number compared to the 200,000 or so years our species has been wandering around the planet. It also doesn't speak to how much of the average daily diet it would have been, or how widespread it was.

My entire point is that from the information in Kaz's post, there's no way you could call what this woman did good or bad. As I said before, "an hour of exercise," "counting calories" and "cutting out carbs" could mean good, healthy behaviors or terrible, excessive behaviors. There's also nothing wrong with weight loss, per se. It's way too easy as an eating disorder sufferer to immediately jump to the most extreme interpretation of any attitude/behavior that has to do with food or exercise, when a non-sufferer could keep track of what they eat without getting obsessive, or exercise every day without pushing themselves to the point of collapse. Jumping straight to "it's obsession with starvation!" when it could just as easily be paying a healthy amount of attention to your diet and exercise regime is a little foolish.


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 2:24 pm 
orange scribe

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I get what you're saying about what the lady did (except the exercise bit... 1 -2 hrs is a bit much everyday if you are watching your intake...)

but anyhoo: I don't call bread a food group either... I think of bread as a starch.... going along with my view of exchanges rather than calories.
a lot of things can be considered starches: potatoes, corn, peas, baked beans, wheat germ, couscous, granola, millet, oats, muesli, matzoh, popcorn,lentils, hummus (high fat starch), etc

as for carrots,, yes they have carbs in them... but they're not starches. .. and according to nhlbi they're classified as a veggie NOT as a carb due to their caloric AND carb content...

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I myself am made entirely of flaws, stitched together with good intentions.

http://recoverysabotage.tumblr.com/


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 2:24 pm 
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No one said bread is a food group.

Grains are though. You can't get grains from veggies. (Carbs yes, but a different kind)

Also this whole veggies being "good" carbs and grains being "bad" carbs IS disordered thinking. I am not saying you have to have an eating disorder to think that, but it IS disordered thinking nonetheless.

And she didn't say just 1 hour of exercise. She said 1-2 hours sometimes twice a day. That, my friends, is overkill.

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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 2:30 pm 
Blue Decay, what you have basically done is come to an eating disorder forum and told people it's ok to get all your carbs from vegetables, and to exercise for an hour every day. Regardless of whether your points my be valid or not where non-disordered people are concerned, please consider that many people on here may read your comments and use it to justify disordered behaviour.


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 2:34 pm 
healthy is sexy
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Last edited by Lauri8 on Sat May 08, 2010 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 2:40 pm 
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There is a reason I didn't post the link.

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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 2:48 pm 
healthy is sexy
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Last edited by Lauri8 on Sat May 08, 2010 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 2:49 pm 
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And a reason I didn't use exact quotes.

*sigh*

This thread has gone all over the place. And that was not my intention.

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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 2:54 pm 
healthy is sexy
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Last edited by Lauri8 on Sat May 08, 2010 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 2:55 pm 
power lies within
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No harm done.

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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 2:58 pm 
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you didn't know lauri, no harm =)

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I myself am made entirely of flaws, stitched together with good intentions.

http://recoverysabotage.tumblr.com/


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